Saving lives with the Galleri blood test

(intro)

Beyond the Challenge is a podcast where executives in the insurance and financial services industry share their insights and experiences. Hosts Kevin and Sandy Dougherty talk with today’s top business leaders about what keeps them up at night and the biggest opportunity organizations can capitalize on today. We encourage you to listen, share, and subscribe to our program.

Kevin and Sandy Dougherty each have over 20 years of experience in insurance and financial services, corporate leadership, and executive search. They’re the owners of Global Corporate Solutions and Global Corporate Leaders. Global Corporate Solutions partners with organizations to gain efficiencies and contain costs. Global Corporate Leaders partners with organizations to enhance and evaluate talent.

Beyond the Challenge podcast is sponsored by Exactuals, perfecting payments and the data driving them; Techficient, transforming the protection journey with intelligent data and machine learning to drive better outcomes; and JourneyGuide, improving your clients’ retirement outcomes through interactive planning software.

Welcome to Beyond the Challenge. Here are your hosts, Kevin and Sandy.

(interview)

Sandy: Today we’re talking with Lindsay Hanson, chief marketing officer from John Hancock, Alex Yang, marketing actuary from Munich Re, and Horacio Herrera, head of life insurance partnerships at GRAIL. We will be discussing the Galleri blood test for cancer and how John Hancock and Munich Re are using this new technology to help their policyholders stay healthy and detect cancer earlier. GRAIL is a new health care company focused on saving lives and improving health by pioneering new technologies for early cancer detection ratio. Horacio, can you tell us a little bit about GRAIL and the Galleri blood test?

Horacio: Absolutely, Sandy. Thank you for having us. GRAIL, as you mentioned, is a new biotech company. It’s been able to launch the first ever multi cancer early detection blood test in the world. It has the ability of detecting over 50 different types of cancers with a less than 1 percent false positive rate, and, more importantly, an accuracy of where it is in your body of close to 90 percent. But what is GRAIL and what is Galleri? GRAIL is the company, a company that was founded through an adverse event in science, as it tends to happen, and Galleri is the product, the test that we offer policyholders. But I can take a step back and go back in time, how we came to be was running a clinical study. Illumina, the largest sequencing company in the world, was running a clinical study of 125,000 pregnant women. Out of 125,000 women, ten of them had an abnormal signal. They were testing for NIPT, noninvasive prenatal testing. This is a test done to see if there’s something going on with the fetus. Ten of these women didn’t understand the result nor the doctors. We followed up with these women during the clinical study and shortly after and learned that all ten of these women had cancer and a different type of cancer and a different stage of that cancer. And that’s when GRAIL came to be. We felt it was our moral responsibility to understand how many cancers we can find in the blood, how early we could detect them, and what would that mean from a mortality perspective. So it’s been seven years, we’ve run over 335,000 patients through our clinical studies, have led partnerships with the leading health system, such as Intermountain, Dana-Farber, Cleveland, Mayo, as well as self-insured employers in this space and, obviously, our partnerships in life insurance, and I’m happy to say we have a test that will revolutionize how we detect cancer. And what that means is that we no longer have to fear the word cancer because now we can find it early enough where we can do something.

Sandy: Great. Thanks, Horacio. Alex, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what Munich Re is working on with GRAIL?

Alex: Absolutely. Thank you, Sandy and Kevin, for inviting us and having us on this podcast. My name is Alex. I’m a marketing actuary at Munich Re’s US life division. I lead a lot of reinsurance pricing, reinsurance solutions, partnerships. I’m probably currently leading our partnership with GRAIL. So, for those who don’t know, Munich Re is a life reinsurer that is very much focused on mortality risk. Ninety percent of our US business is focused on mortality, mortality risk. We came across GRAIL and the Galleri test sometime in 2021 and this is right in the middle of the pandemic where all causes of mortality were going up and we realized, as a mortality shop, that we got to do something about this and when we came across Galleri test, we realized this is a little bit different than a lot of the other offerings and vendors out there in the life insurance space because this is a test that it’s not telling people to exercise and eat healthy and you can prove their mortality benefit over the next 30, 40 years and maybe they’ll live from 85 to 90. This is something to prevent people, our policyholders, our loved ones from dying next year. This is to prevent a premature death that costs the highest amount of claims for our industry. So that’s when the light bulb moment went off and we decided this is something that life insurance industry should be doing, that we should be working with companies like GRAIL to bring these types of technology into our ecosystem and that’s when we started working with GRAIL to bring them into the life insurance industry.

Sandy: Wonderful. And, Lindsay, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and John Hancock’s Vitality program?

Lindsay: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me and it’s great to be on the call with Alex and Horacio. It’s been a wonderful partnership with them over the past, I want to say a year to 18 months as we’ve been working on this together. I’m the chief marketing officer for John Hancock as well as the head of our global behavioral insurance strategy and delivery and that’s really where the partnership with GRAIL and our extension of our partnership with Munich Re has really come to bear and that’s on our US John Hancock Vitality program. Back in 2015, we launched our John Hancock Vitality program in the US. And if you’re not familiar, that program is really designed to be a different way of looking at life insurance. It comes with all of the traditional financial protection that we know life insurance brings to us but it has the engagement with our customers on a consistent basis to encourage them to live a longer, healthier, and better life. And so we do this to enable our customers to encourage them for physical activity, eating healthier foods. We encourage them to go for regular screenings, meeting with their doctor. And one of those pieces that we came across on our journey here was how can we continue to meet our customers where they want to be met for the long term that they’re with us as clients. We have some of our clients with us for upwards of anywhere from 20, 30 to 100 years so this is a lifetime commitment for us as an organization and we fundamentally believe that this is the space that we want to be in and making these types of investments in our partnerships. Most recently, we announced our partnership with GRAIL back in, gosh, I think it was back in September of 2022, but that was a very fast moving partnership for us, which was tremendous. As we did, we reached out to GRAIL early 2022 and we immediately had a really good synergy on our values and that’s been a critical part of us being able to work together. As you heard how Horacio explained what the Galleri test is and the benefit that it can bring, we too felt as though this is absolutely something that we had to bring to our clients. So, what we did back in September was we launched our pilot and we knew, it wasn’t a question of if we were going to do this, it was more a question of how, because what I think you’ll hear more about here is that early detection of cancer is something that we all fundamentally believe is important and we’re rolling it out but it’s just a matter of how we do that, because I’m sure everyone listening to this podcast or in general has a personal connection to cancer and we want to help detect that cancer early and being able to bring that forward. So happy to talk more about it today.

Kevin: Thank you all for joining us to talk about GRAIL and the new Galleri cancer test and how it can change the insurance industry over the next few years. Alex, let me start by asking you about the business case for life insurance to offer Galleri multi cancer tests to policyholders.

Alex: Absolutely. So, when we first started working with GRAIL, I think the process of building the business case really came to us through the course of building several pilots and John Hancock was the first carrier to get on board to work with us, so really appreciative of the partnership and what we’ve been able to learn from that. The very first reason we got into this was mortality. As I talked about earlier, we believe, given the data that GRAIL has been able to show them through their clinical studies and the amount of patients they have enrolled in their studies, they’ve been able to prove that when you find cancer early, and the Galleri test is able to help find cancer early, lives can be saved. Before we entered the partnership, we’ve seen real cases of individuals who have been saved by taking the Galleri test. So, reducing mortality has real financial benefits to life insurers, we’re in the protection business, and that give us a way of paying for the test, which makes it a really attractive business case where we can offer a valuable benefit to our policyholders that also benefits the life insurance company. The first reason we got into the partnership with GRAIL. But as we started working more with them and with John Hancock, we started to learn that policyholders really, really valued this offering. We’ve seen credible tick up rate across a lot of the programs we’ve seen in this industry, which shows this is an opportunity for life insurers to change their relationship with policyholders, and I’m sure Lindsay is going to expand on this and how the Vitality program has changed how John Hancock policyholders viewed them as a life insurance company. We’ve seen incredible tick up rates across the board and it shows that there’s an opportunity for life insurers to change the way we interact with our clients from just collecting premium and paying claim to being something more, where we can help them push out the devastating day of death potentially for themselves and their loved ones. And then the third element that we’ve also really learned over the last year is how this can be an offering that changes how we engage with distribution. A lot of our distribution partners have been really, really excited about this offering, and, in fact, a lot of them will be the first one to put their hands up to say, “I want to take the test myself,” because a lot of them realize this is an opportunity for them to change how the conversation between them and their policyholders, instead of, “Hey, I’m here to sell you something,” I’m also here to offer you something that is really valuable for you and your family and I can show it to my clients that I am watching out for themselves. So, those three business case add together to become a very compelling reason why life insurers should be offering this test to their policyholders.

Kevin: Lindsay, why should life insurers be involved in helping their customers live longer, healthier, and better lives and how does offering the Galleri early detection cancer test to eligible Vitality members fit into this philosophy?

Lindsay: It’s a great question and one that we have really centered ourselves around as an organization when we launched our John Hancock Vitality program back in 2015. As I mentioned, as an organization, we fundamentally believe that we should help our customers live longer, healthier, and better lives. And the reason for that is really we think about this in terms of a virtuous cycle. We know that by helping our customers live a longer, healthier, and better life, we are, in fact, helping them do that by giving them the tools, the technology, the resources, and rewards them for doing that. That not only helps the customer but it helps us as an organization because that customer then wants to stay with us as an organization and wants to continue to be a customer of ours and that’s good for us as a company, but it’s also good for society as a whole. We are genuinely helping people with the tools that they need and those educations and, again, rewarding them for that and that is essentially where all of these different partnerships and ecosystems that we’ve built out has enabled us to do that. I’ll give you an example that I was nodding along with Alex as he was speaking about how we’ve really changed the types of relationships that we have with our customers. If you think of traditional life insurance, you interact with a customer one or two times a year. That’s a privacy notice, that’s a bill. And that’s fine, those things need to happen. But what we’ve done is we’ve gone from one to two times a year to 20 to 30 times a month. That is fundamental for how we’ve been able to engage with our customers and really change the conversation. Those interactions are powerful interactions. They’re helping people and encouraging them to take part in physical activity, to go see their doctor and to get a screening, to reward them for doing the things that they’re already doing but giving them points that are equating to a status that’s helping them save money on their life insurance premium. So, really, when we take a look at all of those things, again, as Alex had said, that is really helping us in the long term improve mortality. What the Galleri test does and where it fits is it helps our customers realize that now. When we can help our customers detect cancer early, when it can be treated and when it can be cured, that is something that we had to act, we had to bring that to our customers to say this is something you can do to detect cancer and extend your life many more years than we had expected when we did this initially. So that is really what fundamentally changed for us and where the Galleri test fits. It’s something that, yes, we know is going to help our customers down the line but it’s going to help them realize right now if they have early stage cancer, we can detect it early, they can go ahead and get the treatment for it and it’s going to help their lives, both for us as an organization, for our reinsurance partners, like Munich Re, and for the customer, and that’s really this mutually beneficial relationship that we’ve built along the way.

Sandy: Great. So, Alex, how is Munich Re using the Galleri test and the results from those tests?

Alex: Yeah, so it’s a good question. I think the question I would ask is how are we partnering with them because Munich Re, as you guys know, is not a consumer facing company, we’re really a reinsurer that sits behind to support a lot of carriers, and when we first entered our partnership with John Hancock and GRAIL, that was such a natural fit. A lot of credit to Lindsay and her team, they said this is not something they want to keep to themselves, they want the entire industry, the life insurance industry, to leverage this opportunity and change how our customers view us as an industry and really bring this test to millions of policyholders and save lives. So that was the mission, that was the joint goal we all had. And as a reinsurer, we have brought access to all the carriers in the US. So, we made a commitment to bring GRAIL into the industry by introducing them to carrier executives, by conducting cost benefit analysis, translating a lot of the medical analysis that GRAIL has done into an actuarial math that carriers can use to quantify the financial benefit of offering this to their policyholders. And we took Horacio and his team on the road to more than 30 carriers over the last year. We spent the entire summer last year traveling together visiting all kinds of carriers in all areas of the United States to introduce them to the industry. And we ran into a lot of questions and we helped solve a lot of these questions. So, as a reinsurer, we see our role as supporting carriers, bringing GRAIL to carriers, distribution companies, and regulators. A key role that we’ve played as well is we had our general counsel started visiting a lot of insurance commissioners to introduce the offering to them so that they don’t view this as any sort of rebating or they need to better understand what this offering is. And so far, we have gotten really, really positive feedback from that. So it paves the way for a lot of our other carrier partners as well as John Hancock to extend their offering, to make this easier for them to offer the test to their policyholders.

Sandy: Okay. So, Lindsay, what feedback have you received from advisors on offering the Galleri test to policyholders?

Lindsay: The feedback overall has been extremely positive. There’s been a sentiment of gratefulness for bringing this forward and for sharing the knowledge around this. There’s been an emphasis on really this idea of continuing to build out the offering that we are bringing to our distribution partners to be able to bring to their clients. So we continue to build upon this partnership that we have, these partnerships that we have, not only with our reinsurers but specifically with our distribution partners, our producers, our advisors. And so the sentiment has been tremendous. We’ve gotten very good response in terms of how can I use this, how can I position this, how can I bring this to my clients so it’s really been really just a very positive experience for us. GRAIL and Munich have been with us all along the way. As Alex mentioned, when we have maybe a particular question on the Galleri test or on what happens after the Galleri test is taken or what does that experience look like, they have been tremendous partners for us to be able to answer those questions, to speak directly with our distribution partners to really get a feel for what it’s like, and actually have gone a step further to actually allowing us to partner with them to host some of our key distribution partners at both locations that GRAIL has on the West Coast and on the East Coast so that they can see the facility, they can meet some of the senior leaders, they can meet the scientists, they can go through the full experience. So that has been really an amazing experience to be able to offer that has really helped solidify that this is something that we’re doing to help their clients and how we can continue to bring partnerships to them.

Kevin: Alex, are you hearing the same as Lindsay or what feedback has Munich Re received?

Alex: Absolutely. So, from the distribution world, we’re hearing a lot of positive feedback from these offerings. John Hancock was highly praised by a lot of our distribution partners regarding being the lead in this offering. We have a couple other carrier partners who are trying to be a fast follower and really bring this to life quickly. And I’ll give you some examples. One carrier who’s offering this test, not everybody has John Hancock’s Vitality program that is a mature engagement platform and they get a lot of engagement from policyholders even before this offering. We have carriers who have never engaged with the policyholders other than sending them premium notices and when we started the discussion, they said, “Hey, look, a lot of our policyholders don’t even subscribe to our emails,” but even them started seeing really good response rate from their policyholders, from distribution partners, and their distribution partners are really applauding them for doing something that’s out of the box for them. We have another carrier that are starting to test this offering with their capital distribution and their distribution feedback was, “Wow, I already heard about this test from other channels and once you started offering this, I think it makes a lot of sense because it benefits the insurance company, it benefits policyholder, it benefits distribution,” so we’re hearing a lot of good feedback from distribution world. And from the carrier world, we’re hearing a lot of excitement. Frankly, I think John Hancock’s position of taking the lead on this has really put a lot of insurance executives on notice. A lot of people are reading the press releases and saying, “How can we make this work?” and where they’re helping them to try to make this work, we’re seeing a lot of momentum in terms of carriers who has never considered health and wellness programs before realizing there is an opportunity, a true opportunity to change people’s lives. And I truly believe over the next year or so we’re going to see a lot of momentum shifting in the US life insurance space where carriers are looking to engage their policyholders more.

Lindsay: Just to add to that, if I may, Alex, appreciate the mention of John Hancock being first to lead this with you and with GRAIL, it’s truly something that we’re proud of. What I would encourage my fellow colleagues in the industry to do is to reach out to Munich, to reach out to GRAIL, to reach out to myself if you have questions or how we can help and share some of our learnings. This is something that we really feel as though is important to make a part of the life insurance industry and we’re very proud of it and happy to help.

Alex: Thank you, Lindsay.

Sandy: Lindsay, do you see Galleri cancer test being used as an underwriting tool in the next few years or is it really just more, I’m going to say, a business tool, we’re going to say to keep mortality down so it’s better for the companies? How do you see it being used for the insurance industry?

Lindsay: It’s a great question, Sandy. The way we see the Galleri test being used is how it is used today, being able to give it to consumers, clients that we have to be able to detect cancer early. Essentially, right now, we’re offering it out to our clients once they are customers of ours and they fit the criteria of being able to take the Galleri test. It’s not something that we require nor do we expect to require it as part of the underwriting process. So, we’ve actually seen the Galleri test come through in underwriting today, not as a requirement for us but it has come through just as a mammogram comes through or a colonoscopy comes through, a Galleri test comes through, and so it’s looked at, as we expected it would be, just like any other cancer screening test that people should be going for at certain ages, at certain times in their lives. So, I don’t expect it to be a requirement through underwriting for John Hancock and I don’t know if others wanted to comment on it but that’s not something that we’re planning to do. We’re continuing to plan to offer it out to our clients once they are a customer of ours and something that we can bring to them.

Alex: I just want to add a little bit common to that and exactly what Lindsay’s saying, I think the use case of using Galleri underwriting is a little bit contradicting to the purpose that we all set up when we brought Galleri into the life insurance industry, which is to the insurance line, to help policyholders live a better life. Using it to deny coverage, there’s a lot of issues with it. One, it’s still an epigenetic test. Two, it is quite expensive so it’s going to be cost prohibitive to use in underwriting. And, third and most importantly, I think one thing that folks need to understand is Galleri doesn’t give somebody cancer, it helps detect cancer early. So it’s just like a mammogram or a colonoscopy, some distributor, their first reaction is, “Well, if I make them take the Galleri test, there’s a chance that they may not be able to qualify for life insurance,” but that’s not true. It’s not Galleri test that makes them not qualify for life insurance, it’s cancer, and if that 1 percent over the age 50 who can find their cancer early and treat it and be cancer free, maybe they will become eligible for life insurance again and that’s the goal we’re all working towards.

Sandy: So if, again, one of your customers, one of your policyholders takes the test after they’re already insured and it comes back that they have cancer in some form, we’re just going to leave it broad like that, is that information used in any way or is it just information, I’m going to say, that stays with the client?

Lindsay: So John Hancock does not receive any information from GRAIL or from Munich Re on anything that has to do with the Galleri test, to the extent of we make the offerings through our Vitality program to our customers, we’re looking at expanding it out to our in force customers that are non-Vitality. We don’t know who orders the test, we don’t know who goes for the test, we don’t know the results of the test. That is strictly between our clients and they become patients of GRAIL and work through with them. So, we do know on an aggregate level that we have helped some of our clients know that they have cancer and they are undergoing treatment, we don’t know anything about them as to who they are, how many, types of cancer, that’s not something that shared with us and not something that we wish or want to get.

Alex: Yeah, that’s the same position we took at Munich Re. We do not receive any personalized and personally identifiable data on who took the test, who was positive, who was negative, and that was strictly to make sure clients feel comfortable we’re not going to use that information to change their coverage or deny future coverage.

Horacio: The belief, Sandy, that detecting cancer early, proven by our multiple clinical trials and supporting that stage shifting of cancer, was many years of due diligence with Munich Re and John Hancock. As Lindsay mentioned, it was a very fast timeline for them but they saw it and they understood that there was going to be a bit of that unknown, that chasm that they were going to say, “We trust this because we won’t know the personal information.” From a GRAIL perspective, we take privacy to its highest regard. We’re ruled by HIPAA, there is a privacy component to this, and the only individuals that know of a Galleri test result are the prescribing physicians and the individual patients. That’s it. What we share back to our partners is aggregate de-identified data holistically because we have to tell them how many tests have been taken, if there is positive signals in their population, and then they’ve trusted us and our partners to make sure that we are supporting the individual patients through their journey. We’ve triaged them back into the health system and that’s that trust because of the privacy we have with our relationship.

Sandy: Okay, so, Horacio, what does GRAIL see as the main barrier to carriers then making Galleri available to their policyholders?

Horacio: I think the reality is three parts. The first one is understanding the status quo. We sadly are quite comfortable with our current screenings and we are comfortable thinking that we’re quite protected. And it’s amazing technology, don’t take me wrong. Mammography and colonoscopy and low-dose CT are amazing technologies, but they only encompass about 29 percent of all cancer deaths. Over 70 percent of cancer deaths are in cancers where there’s no screening. The reality is that when you talk to life insurance companies, as we had with Lindsay, when they see someone pass from a pancreatic cancer two years after issue, people just shrug it off because there’s nothing they could have done. Now is an opportunity. So understanding the status quo that even though we get screened today, let’s say I go get screened for my colonoscopy and my colon cancer here, I’m ten times more likely to have another cancer than the one I’m looking for. So first is understanding the status quo is quite limiting. The second one is a philosophical alignment. It’s exactly what Lindsay mentioned, it’s that value of what do we want to do with our policyholders? They’re there on the worst day of people’s lives, are they pushing that day out as far as possible with as many of those offerings? Galleri is one of them. And the third is resources, is where do you live? Do I live in new products? Am I in underwriting? Am I in in force management? What are the resources? John Hancock invested in Vitality many years ago in 2015 as a starting point, not a lot of companies have done so. But to Alex’s comment, there’s an opportunity for life insurance companies to start that program and have Galleri be the starting point. So it’s not just about where it lives but believing that there’s that impact, trusting that relationship, and starting a program. So, to synthesize, knowing that the status quo is limiting, having a philosophical alignment with wanting to do better for your policyholders, and resources to say even if it doesn’t fit perfectly, we can still try something today.

Sandy: Awesome. Horacio, outside of the insurance carrier, can an individual get the Galleri test if they want? Are those results reported to any medical databases or is the information entirely private if an individual chooses to take the test?

Horacio: Yeah, great question. The answer is yes. Today, you can get Galleri by a physician-prescribed approach in any state in the United States. That’s actually our first go-to market was directly with physicians. This is not something that is exclusive to the life insurance industry. We actually have multiple go-to markets. Self-insured employers are also offering this to their individual employees and spouses and beneficiaries. We also have health systems leading the charge in offering this to their patients and then we have innovative kind of Medicare advantaged pairs. So there’s a whole cohort of go-to markets and people can get them today. It is a physician-prescribed test, so even though it’s not in kind of a prescription database, it is in the medical record. It is an opportunity, especially when there’s a result, someone gets it added to their medical record in that function. At the end of the day, the medical record is also private between the physician and the patient and if they were to consent to share that information, that’s defined by the individual.

Sandy: Thank you.

Kevin: Alex, do you see the compliance or regulation landscape changing with this new technology?

Alex: Yeah. So, there’s two regulations that we hope will change in the near future which makes it a lot easier for this type of technology to really get broadened access. One is on the healthcare side. Regulations, legislations need to be passed in order for Medicare, public programs, private healthcare to cover tests like Galleri. That is the ultimate goal with something like Galleri is this becomes part of everybody’s health plan, they’re getting their annual screening. At that point, the life insurance companies can say, “Hey, we’ve done our job, we’re going to benefit from everybody having access to this technology.” At the broadest level, that is the goal that we’re all shooting towards and at that point, our goal will be then to take this technology internationally, to other countries and benefit people around the world. The second part of regulation that I hope is changing and I think there’s a lot of momentum is specifically in life insurance. As I mentioned, our general counsel, Paige Freeman, has been on the road talking to a lot of commissioners about the offering of Galleri test to policyholders. We’ve received incredible feedback from commissioners. They understand this is something that will benefit policyholders who live in their states. Why wouldn’t they want us to offer this? Their concern is mainly around companies offering it in a fair and discriminatory manner, which is completely understandable. However, the insurance laws are written in a way that prevents some of these offerings in certain states and we hope and we see a lot of momentum building in terms of introducing value-added services amendments to allow carriers to offer more benefits like this, and I think that is going to be the trend. We’re pushing it forward, we’re working very hard with ACLI and a number of bodies to change those regulations so that carriers in the future can offer more benefits like the Galleri test to the policyholders.

Horacio: I think Alex highlighted a few different points that I just want to double down on. A question we traditionally get is why isn’t this being reimbursed in health insurance and why does it have to be on life insurance companies and carriers to take on that responsibility. The reality about our health system, for anyone that knows, is that it’s slightly broken and then it does not focus on preventative measures. So when you think of the Medicare Act, it did not incorporate preventative screening technology. You actually have to pass laws, as mentioned by Alex, where you have to have congress have an exemption to the exception. So, in other words, incorporate mammography and colonoscopy and low-dose CT as examples for people to get those get reimbursed. There’s work on the Hill, multi-cancer early detection, not focused on Galleri, just focused on the whole vertical going in that direction, so that work is happening but it takes a long time. The other function of it is that life insurance companies, while that is happening, are saying there is a bridge to fill because a stat that scares us is that it takes 17 years for primary care physicians to adopt new technologies. This year alone, in the US, 600,000 people will die of cancer. If you multiply that by 17 years, then you’re talking about millions of people that will die because we’re waiting for that. John Hancock, Munich Re said that’s too much time and they decided to push forward. Other industries such as single payer systems like the NHS have taken a different approach where they’ve done the largest clinical trial in multi-cancer early detection in the word, 140,000 individuals to say we’ll run this, once and if successful, we will roll this out to our whole industry, to our whole health system. In the US, it doesn’t work that way because they don’t hold the risk from cradle to grave, they actually have to bid against each other every three or four years by the self-insure employers. That’s the conundrum. We don’t have the same structure but in that meantime, carriers and reinsurers like John Hancock and Munich Re are saying let’s fill that gap because it will live in the health system, it will be reimbursed but let’s do it today.

Sandy: Lindsay, Alex, and Horacio, thank you for your time today. It’s been great to hear your insights in how the new GRAIL technology is playing a part in keeping Americans healthy and living longer. Thank you so much.

Lindsay: Thank you so much for having us.

Alex: Thank you so much.

Horacio: Thank you for having us.

(outro)

Thank you for listening. Please make sure to subscribe and share so we can stay in touch. If you would like to learn more about how Global Corporate Solutions and Global Corporate Leaders can help your organization recruit the best talent, increase your diversity, and save money, please visit our website at www.thegclgroup.com.